Question: Many ultra orthodox jews are not zionist because they believe Israel should not exist because the Messiah hasn’t come. However the land which the Torah refers to isn’t Israel but Judah. Judah and modern day Israel are different because Judah was larger than Israel and was a Jewish theocracy. So what’s their problem with modern day Israel?

Answer: The Jewish people during the last 2000 years throughout the diaspora have prayed and continue to pray for the return to Zion, if that doesn’t make them Zionist, I don’t know what does. Surely not subscribing to a socialist ideology that precludes prayer to God, such as the Zionist movement established by Hertzel. Though in regards to being a Zionist in line with  contemporary zionist ideology, you are correct, many orthodox Jews would shy away from that label.

Having said that, let’s clear up some misconceptions.

If by saying Ultra Orthodox, you are referring to the fringe group of orthodox jews who are sometimes known as Neturei Karta, even they don’t believe that Israel should not exist. You can visit their website to get a better understanding of their views but in summary, they don’t recognize the legitimacy (whatever that means) of the current secular state governing lands that were formerly known as Palestine.

The Torah refers to what today is Israel by numerous names. I think the first time we find the term Land of Israel is in 1 Samuel 13:19

When in Deuteronomy it talks about the land of Judah it is refering to the portion of the promised land allocated to the tribe of Judah as it refers to the lands of Reuven, Gad, Menashe, Ephraim etc. Actually the portion of Judah was much smaller than today’s borders.

Sincerely

Akiva Wagschal